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	<title>
	Comments on: The Church Growth Movement: innovating like it’s 1894	</title>
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	<link>https://discern.org/2015/01/the-church-growth-movement-innovating-like-its-1894/</link>
	<description>Incorporating betterthansacrifice.org</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2015 11:41:08 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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	<item>
		<title>
		By: Doulos		</title>
		<link>https://discern.org/2015/01/the-church-growth-movement-innovating-like-its-1894/#comment-37</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Doulos]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2015 11:41:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://discern.org/?p=298#comment-37</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://discern.org/2015/01/the-church-growth-movement-innovating-like-its-1894/#comment-30&quot;&gt;Km&lt;/a&gt;.

Thank you, Km, that illustrates the point of the article. Posted here: https://discern.org/2015/01/circus-by-the-glades/]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://discern.org/2015/01/the-church-growth-movement-innovating-like-its-1894/#comment-30">Km</a>.</p>
<p>Thank you, Km, that illustrates the point of the article. Posted here: <a href="https://discern.org/2015/01/circus-by-the-glades/" rel="ugc">https://discern.org/2015/01/circus-by-the-glades/</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Km		</title>
		<link>https://discern.org/2015/01/the-church-growth-movement-innovating-like-its-1894/#comment-30</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Km]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jan 2015 20:06:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://discern.org/?p=298#comment-30</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Church by the glades did a circus theme.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hBVXe02S2kU]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Church by the glades did a circus theme.<br />
<a href="https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hBVXe02S2kU" rel="nofollow ugc">https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hBVXe02S2kU</a></p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Doulos		</title>
		<link>https://discern.org/2015/01/the-church-growth-movement-innovating-like-its-1894/#comment-26</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Doulos]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jan 2015 12:54:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://discern.org/?p=298#comment-26</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://discern.org/2015/01/the-church-growth-movement-innovating-like-its-1894/#comment-23&quot;&gt;Donna&lt;/a&gt;.

Hello Donna, thank you for visiting. The performance of the Chris Brown song was the opening to NewSpring’s Christmas Eve service. You can watch the whole service on the NewSpring website, &lt;a href=&quot;https://newspring.cc/sermons/a-thrill-of-hope/christmas-eve1&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;. If you were referring to the circus photograph I used, please see my reply to Gavin. Numerous actual examples of church-as-entertainment can be found at &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.alittleleaven.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;The Museum of Idolatry&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://discern.org/2015/01/the-church-growth-movement-innovating-like-its-1894/#comment-23">Donna</a>.</p>
<p>Hello Donna, thank you for visiting. The performance of the Chris Brown song was the opening to NewSpring’s Christmas Eve service. You can watch the whole service on the NewSpring website, <a href="https://newspring.cc/sermons/a-thrill-of-hope/christmas-eve1" rel="nofollow">here</a>. If you were referring to the circus photograph I used, please see my reply to Gavin. Numerous actual examples of church-as-entertainment can be found at <a href="http://www.alittleleaven.com" rel="nofollow"><em>The Museum of Idolatry</em></a>.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Doulos		</title>
		<link>https://discern.org/2015/01/the-church-growth-movement-innovating-like-its-1894/#comment-25</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Doulos]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jan 2015 12:51:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://discern.org/?p=298#comment-25</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://discern.org/2015/01/the-church-growth-movement-innovating-like-its-1894/#comment-24&quot;&gt;Gary Bendler&lt;/a&gt;.

Hello Gary, thank you for stopping by. The photo is of a circus and is meant to be illustrative of Spurgeon’s point. It’s by ‘peddhapati’, and is entitled &lt;em&gt;The Greatest Show on Earth!&lt;/em&gt; You can find the original &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.flickr.com/photos/peddhapati/10785183655&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;, as mentioned in the photo credit at the end of the article. Numerous actual examples of church-as-entertainment can be found at &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.alittleleaven.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;The Museum of Idolatry&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://discern.org/2015/01/the-church-growth-movement-innovating-like-its-1894/#comment-24">Gary Bendler</a>.</p>
<p>Hello Gary, thank you for stopping by. The photo is of a circus and is meant to be illustrative of Spurgeon’s point. It’s by ‘peddhapati’, and is entitled <em>The Greatest Show on Earth!</em> You can find the original <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/peddhapati/10785183655" rel="nofollow">here</a>, as mentioned in the photo credit at the end of the article. Numerous actual examples of church-as-entertainment can be found at <a href="http://www.alittleleaven.com" rel="nofollow"><em>The Museum of Idolatry</em></a>.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Gary Bendler		</title>
		<link>https://discern.org/2015/01/the-church-growth-movement-innovating-like-its-1894/#comment-24</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gary Bendler]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jan 2015 03:24:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://discern.org/?p=298#comment-24</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I have a question,....where did the photograph used for this article come from ? Is it actually a photograph from the church service itself or is this a manufactured photograph,..... a photograph of something else entirely just used as illustration ?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a question,&#8230;.where did the photograph used for this article come from ? Is it actually a photograph from the church service itself or is this a manufactured photograph,&#8230;.. a photograph of something else entirely just used as illustration ?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Donna		</title>
		<link>https://discern.org/2015/01/the-church-growth-movement-innovating-like-its-1894/#comment-23</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Donna]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2015 23:48:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://discern.org/?p=298#comment-23</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Where is this church at? Are they on Facebook or have a website? I like doing research on things like this is why I&#039;m asking. I certainly don&#039;t want to go there.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Where is this church at? Are they on Facebook or have a website? I like doing research on things like this is why I&#8217;m asking. I certainly don&#8217;t want to go there.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Christiana		</title>
		<link>https://discern.org/2015/01/the-church-growth-movement-innovating-like-its-1894/#comment-18</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Christiana]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2015 03:08:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://discern.org/?p=298#comment-18</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Amen and to the comment above as well!

The seeker sensitive model gets the whole thing upside down.   Exactly, what difference does it make how many are in the multitude, if the gospel is never preached?!?!  And you can&#039;t sugar coat it.  Those who came for the candy will bolt out in all directions when they see the true gospel.  But what is the point in alluring them by appealing to their flesh, just to tell them they must crucify it with Christ when you give them the gospel, and then they all run away?  The goal is, and let me make this clear for those who seem to be a bit... er... confused here... the goal is:  salvation, and it works by giving... (drumroll....)  the GOSPEL!  You can&#039;t lure them in with candy, bells, neon lights, and whistles folks.  The message and the wrapping it comes in should match.  The point is that people get saved, so they need the gospel.  You want to attract the sincere ones so you make the brochure match the destination.  That is how you get results.  Even if you draw 100, and 20 get saved, at least there are twenty.  But if you draw 100,000, and never preach the gospel, 0 will get saved, and 0 is less than 20.  Heck, it&#039;s even less than 10, or 1.  If they do preach the true gospel, most who came for flesh tickling will quickly find their way to the nearest exit.  Are you seeker sensitive types picking up on this yet?!?  But I know something many don&#039;t.  And it&#039;s this.  Seeker sensitive church &#039;CEO&#039;s are not sensitive about the numbers of people getting saved.  Shocking, I know.  They are sensitive about how many people warm their pews and keep warming their pews.  (church &#039;growth&#039;)   And sensitive about them dropping in their $ as the plate gets passed.  Or should I say $$$.   And, that is all they care about.  In fact, they don&#039;t even believe the gospel, the bible, as being the truth.  It gets even worse.  Some are even intentional deceivers, wolves in sheep&#039;s clothing to lead astray, workers of satan.  They do exist, and infiltration has been successful.  You can&#039;t use the methods of the world to draw people out of the world.  You use the methods of Christ to lead them to Christ.  (yes, you can quote me)   ( ;   Jesus said that no one can come to Him unless the Father draws him.  Just another note, uh... the Father is not going to use neon las vegas lights to draw you.    So brace yourselves, get on your knees, and repent.   You&#039;ll never regret it.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amen and to the comment above as well!</p>
<p>The seeker sensitive model gets the whole thing upside down.   Exactly, what difference does it make how many are in the multitude, if the gospel is never preached?!?!  And you can&#8217;t sugar coat it.  Those who came for the candy will bolt out in all directions when they see the true gospel.  But what is the point in alluring them by appealing to their flesh, just to tell them they must crucify it with Christ when you give them the gospel, and then they all run away?  The goal is, and let me make this clear for those who seem to be a bit&#8230; er&#8230; confused here&#8230; the goal is:  salvation, and it works by giving&#8230; (drumroll&#8230;.)  the GOSPEL!  You can&#8217;t lure them in with candy, bells, neon lights, and whistles folks.  The message and the wrapping it comes in should match.  The point is that people get saved, so they need the gospel.  You want to attract the sincere ones so you make the brochure match the destination.  That is how you get results.  Even if you draw 100, and 20 get saved, at least there are twenty.  But if you draw 100,000, and never preach the gospel, 0 will get saved, and 0 is less than 20.  Heck, it&#8217;s even less than 10, or 1.  If they do preach the true gospel, most who came for flesh tickling will quickly find their way to the nearest exit.  Are you seeker sensitive types picking up on this yet?!?  But I know something many don&#8217;t.  And it&#8217;s this.  Seeker sensitive church &#8216;CEO&#8217;s are not sensitive about the numbers of people getting saved.  Shocking, I know.  They are sensitive about how many people warm their pews and keep warming their pews.  (church &#8216;growth&#8217;)   And sensitive about them dropping in their $ as the plate gets passed.  Or should I say $$$.   And, that is all they care about.  In fact, they don&#8217;t even believe the gospel, the bible, as being the truth.  It gets even worse.  Some are even intentional deceivers, wolves in sheep&#8217;s clothing to lead astray, workers of satan.  They do exist, and infiltration has been successful.  You can&#8217;t use the methods of the world to draw people out of the world.  You use the methods of Christ to lead them to Christ.  (yes, you can quote me)   ( ;   Jesus said that no one can come to Him unless the Father draws him.  Just another note, uh&#8230; the Father is not going to use neon las vegas lights to draw you.    So brace yourselves, get on your knees, and repent.   You&#8217;ll never regret it.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dave Stochover		</title>
		<link>https://discern.org/2015/01/the-church-growth-movement-innovating-like-its-1894/#comment-17</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave Stochover]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2015 01:49:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://discern.org/?p=298#comment-17</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Proverbial nail hit on the proverbial head...well stated and, sadly, completely truthful.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Proverbial nail hit on the proverbial head&#8230;well stated and, sadly, completely truthful.</p>
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		<title>
		By: PG		</title>
		<link>https://discern.org/2015/01/the-church-growth-movement-innovating-like-its-1894/#comment-16</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[PG]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2015 22:32:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://discern.org/?p=298#comment-16</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This is the same church that has included the song &quot;Highway To Hell&quot; by AC/DC, &quot;Wrecking Ball&quot; by Miley Cyrus, and &quot;Firework&quot; by Katy Perry as well as other secular songs in their worship sets under the guise that it &quot;brings people into the church that might not normally come&quot;. We know what these secular artists stand for.

Satan is alive and well in the modern church! What should be bringing people into church is the leading of the Holy Spirit and the preaching of the word of God. &quot;No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. Matthew 21:13 &quot;So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh&quot;.

My message to NewSpring is to heed Galations 5:16  -  &quot;Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect&quot;. Romans 12:2

In Matthew 21:13 Jesus drove out the merchants from the temple saying, &quot;&#039;My house will be called a house of prayer,&#039; but you are making it &#039;a den of robbers.&#039;&quot; I can only imagine how He feels when churches like NewsSpring  play songs like &quot;Highway To Hell&quot; in His fathers house.

.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is the same church that has included the song &#8220;Highway To Hell&#8221; by AC/DC, &#8220;Wrecking Ball&#8221; by Miley Cyrus, and &#8220;Firework&#8221; by Katy Perry as well as other secular songs in their worship sets under the guise that it &#8220;brings people into the church that might not normally come&#8221;. We know what these secular artists stand for.</p>
<p>Satan is alive and well in the modern church! What should be bringing people into church is the leading of the Holy Spirit and the preaching of the word of God. &#8220;No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. Matthew 21:13 &#8220;So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh&#8221;.</p>
<p>My message to NewSpring is to heed Galations 5:16  &#8211;  &#8220;Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect&#8221;. Romans 12:2</p>
<p>In Matthew 21:13 Jesus drove out the merchants from the temple saying, &#8220;&#8216;My house will be called a house of prayer,&#8217; but you are making it &#8216;a den of robbers.'&#8221; I can only imagine how He feels when churches like NewsSpring  play songs like &#8220;Highway To Hell&#8221; in His fathers house.</p>
<p>.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: PF_		</title>
		<link>https://discern.org/2015/01/the-church-growth-movement-innovating-like-its-1894/#comment-15</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[PF_]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2015 16:05:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://discern.org/?p=298#comment-15</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[All that proceeds from the Enemy, in and out of the Church, is based on counterfeits to God&#039;s provision of life in Christ.  I would argue that the Church Growth Movement resulting in the mega-church paradigm is extremely powerful, in Satan, but powerless in Christ as it supplants the Gospel of Christ with everything else that is enticing to the sin nature.

The reason the message of the Bible should never be compromised is because it is the only source of power against the sin nature in terms of knowledge and understanding for living a life that yields to God and rejects the Satanic system and the internal draw of the sin nature.  If living for God were easy, everyone would do it...it isn&#039;t easy and that is why God gave us an instruction manual with directives.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All that proceeds from the Enemy, in and out of the Church, is based on counterfeits to God&#8217;s provision of life in Christ.  I would argue that the Church Growth Movement resulting in the mega-church paradigm is extremely powerful, in Satan, but powerless in Christ as it supplants the Gospel of Christ with everything else that is enticing to the sin nature.</p>
<p>The reason the message of the Bible should never be compromised is because it is the only source of power against the sin nature in terms of knowledge and understanding for living a life that yields to God and rejects the Satanic system and the internal draw of the sin nature.  If living for God were easy, everyone would do it&#8230;it isn&#8217;t easy and that is why God gave us an instruction manual with directives.</p>
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